375 AND 395 FLEET USER GROUP
RAMSGATE REP FOR THIS USER GROUP IS ANDY BULL . PLEASE CONTACT ANDY IF YOU WANT TO REPORT ANY PROBLEMS WITH EITHER 375 OR 395 UNITS .
Fleet user group - Actions list
Date: 15th March 2010
Time: 13:30
Location: International House Ashford Floor 7
Attendees: David Ling (DL) Fleet Manager High Speed & Outstations (Chair)
Danny Brady (DB) Driver Manager Tonbridge
Steve Burgess (SB) Driver company council
Bill Williams (BW) Driver company council
Simon Hill (SH) Grove Park Driver and LDR
Simon Pearce (SP) Victoria Driver and LDR
Andy Barnes (AB) Tonbridge Driver
Steve Gurdler (SG) Faversham Driver and H&S Rep
Kelvin Pinnock (KP) Reliability Engineer
Mark Scholefield (MS) Reliability Engineer
Kevin Huntley (KY) Operations Standards Specialist
Apologies: Yorke Williams (YW) Operations Manager, Metro North
Phil Uzzell (PU) Operations Manager, Tonbridge
Copied to: Wayne Jenner Engineering Director
Richard Dean Head of Train Services
Mark Medley Professional Head of Operations
Jack Commandeur Head of Engineering Services
Mark Johnson Engineering Manager – Mainline
Brian Paulding Engineering Manager – Metro
Agenda:
Item 1 – Review of action points from last meeting
Item 2 – Engineering to brief on impending fleet changes
Item 3 – New issues from fleet users
Item 4 - AOB
Item Actions
Class 465
Networker Interlock lights The brightness of the interlock lights on the Networker Fleet of units is too bright resulting in drivers seeing their own reflection in the windscreen during hours of darkness. KP agreed to see what action can be taken to dim these lights.
15/3/10 KP advised that he has discussed the problem with E.A.O. who manufactures this type of equipment and they believe that they may have a suitable product. KP was requested to bring samples to the next FUG meeting.
Action: Kelvin Pinnock
Class 465
Power Brake
Controllers It was reported that the Power Brake Controllers on class 465 units are losing the resistance to move between the power and brake notches. It was agreed that the technical team should review the maintenance specifications and report back on the maintenance that is undertaken
23/11/09 DL confirmed that the technical team have looked at recently reported controllers and have identified a problem that can result in the PBC having less resistance than required between the notches. They will be introducing a special check across the fleet to ensure all units are picked up.
18/01/10 KP reported that the overhaul spec is under review and that the depot is changing out those found defective following drivers reports.
15/3/10 KP agreed to check if these are being maintained as part of the C6 classified repair that has now started on this fleet.
Action: Kelvin Pinnock
AWS Sunflowers It has been noted that the yellow sections of some sunflowers have started to fade resulting in the loss of functionality in the hours of prolonged darkness. DL believed that these items were replaced at a set frequency however he request KP to investigate as a matter of urgency.
18/01/10 KP advised that although he had identified a code of practice that recommends an overhaul frequency for AWS equipment this had not found its way into the ROSCO’s overhaul specifications. He has arranged for this to be discussed with the ROSCO,s and will keep the group updated on progress.
15/3/10 KP advised that he has identified an alternative LED device but he still needs to develop a way forward before the next meeting.
Action: Kelvin Pinnock
Class 375
Cab Secure Radios – Loud Change Area Code
MS has identified a solution to reduce the loudness. Procedure to change the settings is now in place. Operational trial are required to obtain the correct level of setting required enabling us to still meet the group standard. KH to co-ordinate trail by the end of August. (SG and MS to be present).
It should be noted that introduction GSMR will resolve this issue.
16/2/09 - MS reported that a special check has been raised at Ramsgate depot to reduce the volume and this will be carried out when the units are on exam giving a completion date of June 2009. MS to give progress update at next meeting.
20/4/09 – MS reported that the special check has started however, the completion date has slipped to August. He was requested to give an update on progress at the next meeting.
08/06/09 MS provided note prior to meeting. Problems have been found with the tooling and procedure, which has now been updated. This task will now be raised as a campaign within EMS
17/07/09 MS reported that the campaign has started and will be completed by the end of the year.
28/09/09 No technical representation at meeting
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that this campaign should be completed by the end of the year and he will update at the meeting in January.
18/01/10 There has been troubles with implementation over the period since last meeting. Mainly as a result of the increase in defect induced workload, largely as a result of the extremely bad weather. This has impacted on the completion target. Expected comp March. The check is now continuing
Action: Mark Scholefield
Cup Holders
It was agreed that due to development work currently being undertaken on the Communications Audio Control Unit (CACU) to improve the current handset issues. The cup holder development will be put on hold and progressed further at a later date.
MS to provide approximate time scales for CACU development and GSMR first of class fitment.
Location options and costing to be tabled at the next meeting.
16/2/09 - MS reported that he has been sourcing a supply of cup holders that can be fitted and the initial price is £7.50 per item. He believes that this can be improved and will report back at the next meeting. PR stated that he felt that based on this cost this could be an easy win for all.
20/4/09 – MS reported that he has managed to reduce this cost to £5.32 per holder. He will now compile a short paper that can be presented for financial consideration.
08/06/09 DL briefed the group that paper hade been reviewed by the Engineering team and further development work is now required as it was felt that the current proposal is not robust.
17/08/09 MS reported that he has been unable to find an alternative product so far however he will continue to look. It was then debated if the plastic ones fitted to the 377 fleet are acceptable and it was reported that none have been found broken on these units. DL agreed to discuss this with the engineering team as fitting these would be the quick option.
28/09/09 DL confirmed that he has obtained the Engineering Directors approval to implement this modification and that MS will be driving this forward.
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that cup holders have been ordered and delivery is expected late December. A discussion took place in respect to the best location and the group agreed that Steve Gurdler should be invited to Ramsgate to agree the final position.
18/11/10 MS presented cup holder that have been delivered. SG will attend Ramsgate with MS to agree final position so that fleet fit can commence
18/01/2010 Meeting with Steve Gurdler arranged for discussions on positioning.
15/03/10 SG advised that he has agreed a location with MS. MS to advise group on progress with fitment at next meeting
Action: Mark Scholefield
Noisy air con
CL 375 & 376 The noise of the Air Con unit was raised as a concern.
Investigation show the noise is emanating from the HVAC due to the volume of air circulated. This volume of air is required to meet the Group standard for the cab occupied by two people. As one person only uses the Cab for 90% of the time, could we apply to deviate from the standard?
WP has confirmed that the unit is capable of being modified.
Kevin Huntley to lead the derivation from the group standard with Adam Page from Engineering.
16/2/09 Update No real progress has been made on this issue and further work is required.
08/06/09 KH was unable to update today as he was on leave.
17/08/09 KH agreed to follow this up by the next meeting
28/09/09 KH reported that he is still working on this issue to resolve
23/11/09 KH was unable to attend so no update available
18/11/10 KH not present however discussion took place where it was agreed that short term mitigation would be to shut system down for a short time for which a derogation will be required.
15/3/10 KH stated that he is happy with the proposal to either reduce the time the fan is in operation and or reduce its speed and he understood that this would make the system non compliant to the group standard. MS to investigate what can be done to achieve this solution.
Action: Mark Scholefield
375/376 Winter Performance The recent snow conditions had resulted in drivers reporting that the number of messages shown to the driver can distract them. DL requested that specific examples are compiled and sent to MS for his review.
15/3/10 After discussion, it was agreed that main problem was that every time the unit had a loss of power this flags up on Mitrac. The preferred option would be for only the first loss to be reported and then only serious defects that are about to close down the unit be flagged up. MS to consider if this is possible and practical.
Action Mark Scholefield
Class 376
375/6 Drivers seat
Conformation required that the 375 seat modification is being rolled out to the 376 fleet.
16/2/09 Update MS advised that we will have a stronger swivel fitted to all class 375 and 376 seats. Progress to be reported at the next meeting
20/4/09 – MS reported that he is still awaiting the final production version of this repair from Bombardier.
08/06/09 MS provided note prior to meeting. We are now awaiting the formal modification approval from BTS
17/08/09 MS reported that this is ongoing.
28/09/09 No Technical representative at meeting
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that the materials are due and Bombardier are proposing to use a man in a van to run around all sites to modify all units in a short time frame. The modification consist of provide an improved swivel reducing the amount of rock and roll.
18/01/10 MS advised that the modification has started and is due for completion by the 1st March. MS also agreed to find out the overhaul specification for the drivers seats following concerns raised by SB.
15/3/10 KP advised that so far 61 seats had been modified. MS to provide update at next meeting. DL also agreed to find out how Southern had funded the seat replacement programme on their fleet.
Action: Mark Scholefield/ Dave Ling
AOB / New items Raised
Class 465/0&1 Door Defects DL advised the group that there has been a noticeable increase in reported door defects that have been tested with No Fault Found. He requested that all Drivers are encouraged to provide as much information as possible if they experience defects in this area to assist the engineers with Fault Finding
Action: All Drivers
465155 KP briefed the group that this unit has been fitted with an illuminated Emergency Brake button as a trial and any feedback would be appreciated.
Action: All Drivers
375/376 second mans seat DB reported that some DI’s had stated that these seats could be improved if a thicker seat cushion could be fitted. DL agreed to look at this and report back.
Action: Dave Ling
Actions Closed at this meeting
Cab condition DL advised the group that engineering are developing a package of improvements to the driving cabs in response to the issues that had been found by a driver at Ashford. SG stated that he has noticed that a number of the class 465/9 units have internal seals missing from around the windscreen and requested that these be looked at during this work. DL agreed to raise this with the depots.
18/01/10 DL advised that the depots have been advised and that they were currently working on improving the cab conditions. Going forward it would be good to have some feedback at the next meeting on what the drivers have seen
15/3/10 DL briefed the group on the work that is being undertaken on the GEC units and that this work included bringing the cabs back to an acceptable condition.
Action: Closed
Cab cleanliness SG stated that he had been informed by cleaning staff at Faversham that they do not clean the cabs with antiseptic wipes. DL agreed to investigate the specification that should be used and then visit the location to ensure the specifications are being worked too.
18/01/10 DL advised that he planned to visit Faversham this week to look at cleaning etc.
15/03/10 DL advised that the cleaning at Faversham was not to the standard required however this is being addressed by Wettons and improvements in the overall cleaning standards of the fleets were being seen.
Action: Closed
Meeting dates 2010: Monday 10th May 2010 at 13:30
Monday 5th July 2010 at 13:30
Monday 30th August 2010 at 13:30
Monday 25th October 2010 at 13:30
Monday 20th December 2010 at 13:30
Fleet user group - Actions list
Date: 18th January 2010
Time: 13:30
Location: International House Ashford Floor 7
Attendees: David Ling (DL) Fleet Manager High Speed & Outstations (Chair)
Yorke Williams (YW) Operations Manager Metro North
Phil Uzzell (PU) Operations Manager Tonbridge
Steve Burges (SB) Driver company council
Perry Calvert (PC) Driver company council
Bill Williams (BW) Driver company council
Simon Hill (SH) Grove Park Driver and LDR
Simon Pearce (SP) Victoria Driver and LDR
Andy Barnes (AB) Tonbridge Driver
Steve Gurdler (SG) Faversham Driver and H&S Rep
Kelvin Pinnock (KP) Reliability Engineer
Mark Scholefield (MS) Reliability Engineer
Apologies: Kevin Huntley (KY) Operations standards specialist
Copied to: Wayne Jenner Engineering Director
Richard Dean Head of Train Services
Mark Medley Professional Head of Operations
Jack Commandeur Head of Engineering Services
Mark Johnson Engineering Manager – Mainline
Brian Paulding Engineering Manager – Metro
Agenda
Item 1 – Review of action points from last meeting
Item 2 – Engineering to brief on impending fleet changes
Item 3 – New issues from fleet users
Item 4 - AOB
Item Actions
Class 465
Networker Interlock lights The brightness of the interlock lights on the Networker Fleet of units is too bright resulting in drivers seeing their own reflection in the windscreen during hours of darkness. KP agreed to see what action can be taken to dim these lights.
Action: Kelvin Pinnock
Class 465
Power Brake
Controllers It was reported that the Power Brake Controllers on class 465 units are losing the resistance to move between the power and brake notches. It was agreed that the technical team should review the maintenance specifications and report back on the maintenance that is undertaken
23/11/09 DL confirmed that the technical team have looked at recently reported controllers and have identified a problem that can result in the PBC having less resistance than required between the notches. They will be introducing a special check across the fleet to ensure all units are picked up.
18/01/10 KP reported that the overhaul spec is under review and that the depot is changing out those found defective following drivers reports.
Action: Kelvin Pinnock
Cab condition DL advised the group that engineering are developing a package of improvements to the driving cabs in response to the issues that had been found by a driver at Ashford. SG stated that he has noticed that a number of the class 465/9 units have internal seals missing from around the windscreen and requested that these be looked at during this work. DL agreed to raise this with the depots.
18/01/10 DL advised that the depots have been advised and that they were currently working on improving the cab conditions. Going forward it would be good to have some feedback at the next meeting on what the drivers have seen
Action: All
AWS Sunflowers It has been noted that the yellow sections of some sunflowers have started to fade resulting in the loss of functionality in the hours of prolonged darkness. DL believed that these items were replaced at a set frequency however he request KP to investigate as a matter of urgency.
18/01/10 KP advised that although he had identified a code of practice that recommends an overhaul frequency for AWS equipment this had not found its way into the ROSCO’s overhaul specifications. He has arranged for this to be discussed with the ROSCO,s and will keep the group updated on progress.
Action: Kelvin Pinnock
Class 375
Cab Secure Radios – Loud Change Area Code
MS has identified a solution to reduce the loudness. Procedure to change the settings is now in place. Operational trial are required to obtain the correct level of setting required enabling us to still meet the group standard. KH to co-ordinate trail by the end of August. (SG and MS to be present).
It should be noted that introduction GSMR will resolve this issue.
16/2/09 - MS reported that a special check has been raised at Ramsgate depot to reduce the volume and this will be carried out when the units are on exam giving a completion date of June 2009. MS to give progress update at next meeting.
20/4/09 – MS reported that the special check has started however, the completion date has slipped to August. He was requested to give an update on progress at the next meeting.
08/06/09 MS provided note prior to meeting. Problems have been found with the tooling and procedure, which has now been updated. This task will now be raised as a campaign within EMS
17/07/09 MS reported that the campaign has started and will be completed by the end of the year.
28/09/09 No technical representation at meeting
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that this campaign should be completed by the end of the year and he will update at the meeting in January.
18/01/10 There has been troubles with implementation over the period since last meeting. Mainly as a result of the increase in defect induced workload, largely as a result of the extremely bad weather. This has impacted on the completion target. Expected comp March. The check is now continuing
Action: Mark Scholefield
Cup Holders It was agreed that due to development work currently being undertaken on the Communications Audio Control Unit (CACU) to improve the current handset issues. The cup holder development will be put on hold and progressed further at a later date.
MS to provide approximate time scales for CACU development and GSMR first of class fitment.
Location options and costing to be tabled at the next meeting.
16/2/09 - MS reported that he has been sourcing a supply of cup holders that can be fitted and the initial price is £7.50 per item. He believes that this can be improved and will report back at the next meeting. PR stated that he felt that based on this cost this could be an easy win for all.
20/4/09 – MS reported that he has managed to reduce this cost to £5.32 per holder. He will now compile a short paper that can be presented for financial consideration.
08/06/09 DL briefed the group that paper hade been reviewed by the Engineering team and further development work is now required as it was felt that the current proposal is not robust.
17/08/09 MS reported that he has been unable to find an alternative product so far however he will continue to look. It was then debated if the plastic ones fitted to the 377 fleet are acceptable and it was reported that none have been found broken on these units. DL agreed to discuss this with the engineering team as fitting these would be the quick option.
28/09/09 DL confirmed that he has obtained the Engineering Directors approval to implement this modification and that MS will be driving this forward.
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that cup holders have been ordered and delivery is expected late December. A discussion took place in respect to the best location and the group agreed that Steve Gurdler should be invited to Ramsgate to agree the final position.
18/11/10 MS presented cup holder that have been delivered. SG will attend Ramsgate with MS to agree final position so that fleet fit can commence
18/01/2010 Meeting with Steve Gurdler arranged for discussions on positioning.
Action: Mark Scholefield & Steve Gurdler
Noisy air con The noise of the Air Con unit was raised as a concern.
Investigation show the noise is emanating from the HVAC due to the volume of air circulated. This volume of air is required to meet the Group standard for the cab occupied by two people. As one person only uses the Cab for 90% of the time, could we apply to deviate from the standard?
WP has confirmed that the unit is capable of being modified.
Kevin Huntley to lead the derivation from the group standard with Adam Page from Engineering.
16/2/09 Update No real progress has been made on this issue and further work is required.
08/06/09 KH was unable to update today as he was on leave.
17/08/09 KH agreed to follow this up by the next meeting
28/09/09 KH reported that he is still working on this issue to resolve
23/11/09 KH was unable to attend so no update available
18/11/10 KH not present however discussion took place where it was agreed that short term mitigation would be to shut system down for a short time for which a derogation will be required.
Action: Kevin Huntley
Cab cleanliness SG stated that he had been informed by cleaning staff at Faversham that they do not clean the cabs with antiseptic wipes. DL agreed to investigate the specification that should be used and then visit the location to ensure the specifications are being worked too.
18/01/10 DL advised that he planned to visit Faversham this week to look at cleaning etc.
Action: Dave Ling
Class 376
375/6 Drivers seat
Conformation required that the 375 seat modification is being rolled out to the 376 fleet.
16/2/09 Update MS advised that we will have a stronger swivel fitted to all class 375 and 376 seats. Progress to be reported at the next meeting
20/4/09 – MS reported that he is still awaiting the final production version of this repair from Bombardier.
08/06/09 MS provided note prior to meeting. We are now awaiting the formal modification approval from BTS
17/08/09 MS reported that this is ongoing.
28/09/09 No Technical representative at meeting
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that the materials are due and Bombardier are proposing to use a man in a van to run around all sites to modify all units in a short time frame. The modification consist of provide an improved swivel reducing the amount of rock and roll.
18/01/10 MS advised that the modification has started and is due for completion by the 1st March. MS also agreed to find out the overhaul specification for the drivers seats following concerns raised by SB.
Action: Mark Scholefield
AOB / New items Raised
375/376 Winter Performance The recent snow conditions had resulted in drivers reporting that the number of messages shown to the driver can distract them. DL requested that specific examples are compiled and sent to MS for his review.
Action All Driver Reps
Actions Closed at this meeting
Driving Cabs A number of issues have been raised in the past in respect of the driving cabs and as such it was agreed that DL should discuss these with Colin Clifton and develop a clear plan on the next steps before the next meeting. The current list includes
1. DSD Pedal position on all units including 375 and 376.
2. Fitness for purpose on 2nd Man seats on GEC Networkers and the seating position following the installation of the fire extinguishers.
3. Brightness of interlock lights on Networkers
29/9/09 DL confirmed that he has discussed this with Colin Clifton who was considering the best way forward.
23/11/09 DL advised that Colin has requested information on the cab designs from the fleet owners (ROSCO,s) so that he can decide on the best way forward to address current issues.
18/01/10 DL updated the group that Colin had identified that the ROSCO,s do not hold the information that we were looking for. He then proposed that these actions should be closed out as we were not in a position where these can be resolved in the near future. After discussion, it was agreed that actions could be closed with the exception of the Brightness of the interlock lights, as these are a major issue. DL agreed to list these separately as a new action.
Action: Closed
Hitachi and class 376 braking It was reported that the brake blending appears poor as it has been noticed that as these units approach a stand the train appears to accelerate as braking transfers from regen to friction. DL agreed to discuss this with the tech team and look at the braking curves
23/11/09 DL advised the group that the brake blending had been tested during the testing phase of the Hitachi Traction modification and the equipment performed correctly. He presented a copy of the test report for information. After discussion, it was agreed that the drivers should be encouraged to report specific units when problems are found and the depot teams will then test these.
18/01/10 DL proposed that this action is closed as no reports have been received in the past 8 weeks.
Action: Closed
Noisy Cab
A Number of issues have been identified associated with noisy cabs in relation to the burst though door. Current issues are being progressed through the warranty path with Bombardier.
MS confirms that a work package has been derived to be undertaken on the cab conversion door which address the current issues.
Proposed project plan for rectification work to be submitted
16/2/09 Update MS reported that final specification has been agreed and fitment will start as soon as materials are delivered. He will provide an update on progress at the next meeting.
20/4/09 – MS reported that Bombardier will be undertaking this repair work and he expects them to complete 5 units per week. He will update the group on progress at the next meeting
08/06/09 MS provided note prior to meeting. 22 units have been modified so far.
17/08/09 MS reported that this work was continuing but he did not have the number completed to hand.
28/09/09 No Technical representative at meeting
23/11/09 MS provided a pre meeting note to advise that there were only 7 units remaining for the special check and that the weather door hold back mod had been completed across the 375 fleet.
18/01/10 MS advised that all units are now complete.
Action: Closed
Tinted Side Windows It has been noted that the class 377 units have tinted side windows. The drivers would like these on class 375 units, as it was felt that they would reduce glare and help to keep the cabs cool. Kevin Huntley to review.
28/09/09 KH reported that he contacted Southern for feedback on their experience, which has been positive. He will establish the reasons why it was fitted and inform the group at the next meeting.
23/11/09 KH was unable to attend so no update available.
PC expressed his frustration that this action has taken far too long to resolve.
18/01.10 DL advised that he had found out that the tinted side windows had been installed to prevent glare on the on board driver dispatch monitors and as such it is not required for our units.
Action: closed
Door open alarm PR asked if it would be possible to install a door open alarm that operates if a driver tries to take power before gaining traction interlock as this may help to eliminate rollbacks. MS and KP to undertake initial review
28/09/09 No Technical representative at meeting
23/11/09 KP reported that he has not had time to look into this request. DL requested that this is looked into before the next meeting in January.
18/01/10 KP advised that although technically possible it would be a complicated and costly modification that can not be justified at this time.
Action: Closed
Meeting dates 2010: Monday 15th March 2010 @ 13:30
Monday 10th May 2010 @ 13:30
Monday 5th July 2010 @ 13:30
Monday 30th August 2010 @ 13:30
Monday 25th October 2010 @ 13:30
Monday 20th December 2010 @ 13:30
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